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Post by Kypriotha on Feb 24, 2018 6:54:54 GMT 10
Something I was disappointed with in Tempests and Slaughter is that we didn't see more of the Carthaki empire and its various peoples, tribes and conquered lands. I was particularly disappointed that there wasn't a proper map of the Empire!
It was good to learn more about the tribal, local and wild magic and some of the other tribes through Arram's teachers. And it was interesting to learn more about the bloody history of the Carthaki throne and the Sirajit uprising, but I hope there's more world building and exploration in the next book!
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Post by Idleness on Feb 24, 2018 9:57:58 GMT 10
I think I have to read it again to articulate my thoughts how I'd like. But to me some of the world building felt like it was simply running through a checklist of sorts, in a slightly joy-free way, to explain a bunch of stuff that happens later in the Tortall chronology.
For example:
Encounters with animal god so Numair will be au fait with animal gods when he meets Daine. Check.
Magical animal companion, so he is comfortable with caring for unusual creatures. Check.
More than one teacher freely giving him information about wild and tribal magics, despite it apparently being tangential to his main studies and potentially career limiting for the teacher. Check.
Notice from the Graveyard Hag. Check, though I'm not quite sure yet if there's a strict purpose for this that will be revealed later, or if she's been inserted mainly because she's a character we already know.
Anyway, I guess the thing that really bugged me was, is it really essential that Arram/Numair has first hand experience of all of these things? We already know he's a super geek and would totally read all about all of these things in books. What's it adding to the world building, that we don't already know? Honestly, it felt to me like a whole bunch of recycled plot points and themes from other Tortall books, and I think this made Arram's story less compelling. I think it lessened my enjoyment of T&S and made me wonder if perhaps Pierce felt this book was a particular chore to write (we know it has been contracted for years).
One other thing that really bugged me was the approach to magic. I thought in TIQ it was established that Numair has no healing magic, yet we have him doing some fairly significant healing in T&S. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it stated in TIQ that this was one of the reasons that he and Alanna were a good magical tag team, because they could both do things the other couldn't (and that it was Alanna who supplied the healing)? And again in LK, when Neal gets a bee in his bonnet about Numair's casual approach to moving tons of boulders, and Duke Baird chiding him to be reasonable about the advantages and drawbacks of different types of power? Or maybe just the countless other instances of Gifted individuals being able to perform some types of magic and not others? Yet in T&S, the Gift seems to be treated completely differently.
(I know that I've just given a rather critical assessment here. I did enjoy reading T&S. It just didn't set my world on fire.)
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Post by devilinthedetails on Feb 26, 2018 23:42:45 GMT 10
Many interesting ideas in this thread!
I was also a bit disappointed that we didn't get to explore more of the Carthaki empire and all its diverse peoples and cultures since as a multi-ethnic empire with such rich and varied cultures Carthak has always really intrigued me. The details we did get--depictions of essentially seem to be gladiator fights, the Sirajit rebellion and the racial tensions that creates, the politics surrounding the imperial throne, and the views on tribal magic at the university--were all neat but they were mainly tantalizing hints about the broader world of Carthak. To me, the world building in this book seemed to have a narrower focus on the university which was nice in that we got to see so much of that academic world but had the drawback of denying us a chance to explore more of Carthak as a whole. Perhaps we will see more of Carthak in the future since this was only the opening book. That is what I'm hoping.
I think your criticisms have a lot of validity, Idleness. I wasn't that captivated by Arram's interaction with the crocodile god, for instance, but then in many fantasy stories, human interactions with divine entities don't do that much for me as a reader. More often than not, those moments feel meh more than awesome to me. I also agree that that there seems to be a bit of an inconsistency with the approach to magic. Before reading this book, I was looking forward to seeing how Arram's power came with the limits that Duke Baird talked about, but that ended up almost being contradicted in T&S. I wonder if that seeming contradiction will be explained in the next book. Maybe as Arram's power continues to grow he will paradoxically find it limited as he continues to specialize in his abilities. Or maybe I will just have to create separate magical laws for different series in the Tortall universe.
I'm interested to see what more world building Tammy does in Carthak and at the university in the next installment of the series.
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Post by thereader88 on Feb 28, 2018 19:59:47 GMT 10
Omg yes! Someone else who was bothered by the heavy emphasis on Arram's use of his gift for healing after Numair explicitly says he has no healing magic in Wild Magic. It made it really hard for me to totally immerse myself in the story as there was always this thought in the back of my mind that he wasn't supposed to be able to heal.
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mageprincess
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Post by mageprincess on Feb 28, 2018 22:50:31 GMT 10
Could it be looked at as something that he had a child but failed to cultivate into adulthood once he started focusing on more obscure magics? Just a thought I suppose.
Did anyone else pick up the reference to Rosto Cooper the Younger? I may have shrieked a bit when I read that. Makes me wonder at what connection to Beka a well known, published mage might have. And given his name is Rosto, a child or grandchild? I love little connections like these.
As far as the animal gods go - I actually like the scene where Arram met the Crocodile God. I thought it was really interesting, and I know I would certainly not be that calm coming literally eye to eye with a ginormous croc!
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Post by Tamari on Jul 11, 2018 4:42:34 GMT 10
Related to that, mageprincess, I wonder if Beka and Farmer's kids would have a normal Gift or Beka's death-related magic? About the healing... I need to go re-read Daine's series ASAP. But I wonder if Numair lies about having no healing magic in tI... if something happens that scars him or turns him off of healing. I could see a healing going terribly wrong and leading to him losing his trust in that aspect of his magic. I was intrigued by the lightning snakes. I hope we learn more about them. They're so mysterious. |
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Post by devilinthedetails on Jul 11, 2018 4:56:27 GMT 10
Related to that, mageprincess , I wonder if Beka and Farmer's kids would have a normal Gift or Beka's death-related magic? About the healing... I need to go re-read Daine's series ASAP. But I wonder if Numair lies about having no healing magic in tI... if something happens that scars him or turns him off of healing. I could see a healing going terribly wrong and leading to him losing his trust in that aspect of his magic. I was intrigued by the lightning snakes. I hope we learn more about them. They're so mysterious. That Numair might have lied about having no healing ability is an interesting idea. I did like the idea of Numair having some limits on his power, but that he might lie about not being able to heal is intriguing as well. I do hope that whatever explanation we get for this seeming inconsistency will be satisfying and exciting no matter what it is. I also liked the lightning snakes a lot and hope we'll learn more about them especially since they seem tied to a major mystery (which I think I might have mostly solved) that I expect will be important when the series continued. |
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Maybe once we'd have seen it during Smackdown!