Arram

[Rosie]

So, the first Tortall male protagonist! What did you think of him? Does he make you think/feel differently about older Numair? What do you make of his friendship with Ozorne?

How do you think this book compares with Alanna: the First Adventure?

[mageprincess]

I'm only a couple of chapters in, but it made me realise that Numair isn't actually as old in The Immortals as I keep thinking he is in my head. Like, Jon and Thayet are on the throne when he is ten.

For some reason, I always pictured him as middle aged in The Immortals, possibly because I was closer to to Daine's age when I first read them - but in reality by Realms of the Gods he's actually only the age I am now (which means the age gap is still a little weird but...) for some reason I always pictured Numair, as well as Varice and Ozorne as being much older than they actually are.

[Idleness]

Oh my gosh, the poor boy is so completely out of his depth in almost everything except raw magical talent. My first thought was that the greater worldliness displayed by this gentle, bookish nerd by the time we meet him in the Immortals will be very hard won.

I can see the groundwork for the conflict being laid down. Already we can see that Arram values what is right and fair, and Ozorne values loyalty. I think they're definitely friends of circumstance, even though they're both delighted to share some nerdy interests. Ozorne is already very black and white about who is his friend and who is his enemy, and Arram is I think not yet fully able to grasp the magnitude of some of the darker aspects of Ozorne's character because he's mostly shielded from them as his friend. However, when he does see them he seems able to appeal to Ozorne's better nature for now.

[Kypriotha]

He is so awkward! I like that he's shown as being terrible with horses. Nice consistency.

I can definitely see a big part of his and Ozorne's falling out being about slavery. Also, about Ozorne's jealousy and his narrow definition of loyalty.

By the end of the book, I felt like Arram was showing more of the Numair he will come to be. I also really want to know how and why he chooses his mage name!

Intellectually I knew he was still young when we meet him in Wild Magic - he's only about 30 in the last book - but even I was a bit surprised to be reminded of just how powerful he was at such a young age.

[devilinthedetails]

A lot of good thoughts in this thread!

I definitely agree with those who said that Arram came across as talented and clever but certainly socially awkward. His social struggles (seeming to miss some important cues from students and teachers and having a bit of a knack for saying the wrong thing without meaning to) were something I could connect with since sometimes academics came easier to me than peer relationships when I was younger though I never had a tendency to get in trouble with teachers without realizing a la Arram. That was an aspect that I felt humanized him as a character despite his strong magical abilities. He's Gifted but somewhat out of sync with those around him as a result. Very moving for me.

Since making friends for me was not easy as a teenager, I could relate to Arram's joy at finding friendship in Ozorne and Varice. I do agree with those who say that Ozorne's extreme priority on loyalty and vengeful urges (his hostility to people from Siraj or people he suspects are from Siraj stand out very early) are probably going to drive a wedge between him and Arram. I did find Ozoren's battle with mental illness touching, and I feel it will break my heart a little to seem him drift further into madness. Ozorne does seem to have some "evil" tendencies but also just a lot of mental health issues that in an environment of political backstabbing could lead him down a dark path. Those are the dynamics I will find gripping to read about in the next book.