|
Post by Wildmagesapprentice on Dec 13, 2013 4:43:05 GMT 10
Title: Cycle Rating: G For: Imaginemi Prompt: #1 Tris - uncanon stuff, like an exploration of her childhood, a meeting with her parents, or at Lightsburg. Summary: For Tris, it's always the same, and the cycle never ends. Notes and Warnings:Happ Midwinter, Imaginemi! Hope you like it. ***** “You’re positive? Absolutely certain?” The high tone of her aunt’s voice caught her attention, and Tris turned to press her ear more closely to the door. “Entirely, I’m afraid. I tried every test I know. No results. Not even a spark.” That was the temple mage, the one her Aunt and Uncle had hired to test her for magic. Tris sighed. She didn’t know why they kept trying; the mages always said the same thing. No matter the skill, or the expense, regardless of age or gender or training, the magic testers always declared her to be entirely without magic. “There must be something! Just a hint, a small thing.” “Not even a hint of a hint.” Her aunt’s voice became desperate. “Maybe you should test her again. Just in case you missed-“ “Madame, I am a professional. And with all due respect, I do not think that testing your niece again would produce different results. She does not have magic.” “But she must! She must, she must, she must!” Tris’ aunt laughed hysterically. “The things that have happened around her! Such awful, unnatural things. Magic is the only explanation. I- I can’t handle this anymore. Not without an explanation. ” “I understand. But there is nothing I can do for you or Miss Trisana. I am sorry.” “She’ll have to go then. She cannot stay here, when disaster follows her so closely. She’ll bring this house down around us!” Tris shut her eyes, feeling sick to her stomach. It was always, always the same. Something would happen, she’d become angry, or upset, and strange things would begin to happen. Storms or floods or tremors in the earth. Some property or other would be damaged, someone would complain, and demand she be tested for magic. The mage would arrive, pronounce her magic-free, and she would be carted off to the next unwitting relative. The cycle would begin again. The door opened and her aunt stepped out, with hands clasped neatly and a smile that was stretched far too tightly to be genuine. “Trisana, I have some exciting news for you. You’re to go and stay with your Aunt Uraelle for a while. You leave tomorrow morning. Won’t that be nice?”
|
|
imaginemi
Standard Bearer
Breathing
Posts: 205
|
Post by imaginemi on Dec 13, 2013 10:13:52 GMT 10
I never thought of the fact that they might actually test her for magic each time! Even though, thinking about it now, they probably did. I can just imagine Tris, eavesdropping, and I loved that last line. "You leave tomorrow morning. Won't that be nice?"
Oh yes, so, so very nice.
|
|
Ankhiale
Training Master
The Village Fool
Posts: 2,619
|
Post by Ankhiale on Dec 13, 2013 11:17:47 GMT 10
I think this really captures the essential tragedy at the heart of Tris' backstory - not just how cruel this is to her, but how understandably hard it is for people to deal with her. I really like the understated sense I get here that her aunt and uncle - and possibly even family before her - tried to deal with her, even going to any expense to seek a logical explanation for what the heck was going on.
I mean, canon-wise, we know that Uraelle was a nasty piece of work, but especially with the rest of her family there's always that question: how much can you reasonably expect someone to put up with, especially when they aren't mages themselves to take care of the disasters that Tris brings and have no way to even begin to get her to stop?
You really make me feel for everyone in this fic.
|
|
|
Post by Wildmagesapprentice on Dec 15, 2013 5:28:27 GMT 10
Thank you both so much!! I never thought I'd get so much love for this fic! Happy midwinter!
|
|
|
Post by mistrali on Dec 15, 2013 19:32:21 GMT 10
Oh, well done. What Alix says about no-one knowing how to deal with Tris is why I find it very hard to be unsympathetic to Darra and Valden. How would you handle that sort of destruction, and the rage that goes along with it?
|
|
|
Post by Wildmagesapprentice on Dec 20, 2013 10:22:50 GMT 10
Thankyou! Well, I think how you handle a situation like that depends on how much one knows about it.I can see how Tris' family could have been frightened by her actions, however the way that they treated her over something that was not under her control is unforgivable. I wonder if it would have been different for her if they'd known about her magic, but there's always the chance that they would have treated her strangely because of the peculiar nature of that magic even if they had known. As to how I'd handle it, I'm not sure, but I like to think it would be with more consideration for Tris' feelings. As for the rage, o think I could probably handle that (provided I wasn't blasted to bits at the first opportunity to test this theory).
|
|
Ankhiale
Training Master
The Village Fool
Posts: 2,619
|
Post by Ankhiale on Dec 21, 2013 5:18:25 GMT 10
You know what? I'm not so sure about that. Discounting Uraelle for a minute, who was clearly a nasty piece of work - what would you do, if you had a daughter who could create lethal weather from an unknown source, for unknown reasons, when angry or upset? Honestly, checking her out for magic, then passing her on to people who supposedly could help her is really not at all unforgivable or unreasonable. I have no doubt Uraelle, for example, made it known she thought some discipline would solve the problem, and passing Tris on to one of the temples when it became clear there was literally nothing the family could do is, in-universe, about the only thing they could do.
I really wonder what people wanted Tris' family to do. Not give her up, and put up with sudden windstorms, hail from nowhere, or lightning from a clear sky? Constantly tip-toe around their touchy daughter (not all of Tris' temper is from abuse; a lot is just her natural crankiness) so as not to set her off? Remember, we aren't talking mages here, who work with odd or dangerous things every day. And they have no idea how to handle Tris' weather power. They're essentially unprotected. Let's remember that even a Living Circle temple - which one might expect to have a better handle on oddnesses - couldn't handle Tris and had to send her off to Emelan. It's perhaps also worth noting that we haven't actually met Tris' family; we have her unreliable word for what they were like, and the only reason we can reasonably know that Uraelle was rather mean was because Aymery confirms it.
I don't think it's unforgivable to decide you can't deal with that. It's just a really bad situation all around, and I feel for all the people involved in it.
Edit: LOL, I am redundant today. XD
Really, though, I edited this to add that there's no good real-world equivalent of this kind of thing, but the closest we can probably come is dealing with someone who has severe outbursts of physical violence ... with the added catch that you can't stop them. All you can do is dodge or take shelter and hope that's enough - you can't overpower the person in question.
I don't think it's unfair for anyone to decide they can't live with someone like that. Even if that someone is their own child. That really, really sucks for the child - but living with them, living in fear of what they'll do to you when angry - that's not fair to the parents or other relatives, either. And this is so far outside the bounds of what one can reasonably be expected to just suck up and deal with as a family member that ... yeah. Sometimes, as horrible as it is, getting rid of the problem person is the best solution. Even if the problem isn't strictly their fault, or under their control.
In some ways, I really do think the next step for Tris' growth as a person is coming to realize that her parents weren't awful people for giving her up. They responded to a horrible situation in the best way they knew how. Sometimes, there's no option that doesn't hurt someone.
|
|
imaginemi
Standard Bearer
Breathing
Posts: 205
|
Post by imaginemi on Dec 21, 2013 5:37:44 GMT 10
And now I want to see Tris with a child she can't handle or understand I think they could have handled the situation a bit better so that Tris wasn't so convinced she couldn't trust adults. I think being passed around from relative to relative really hurt Tris, as opposed to just gritting their teeth and giving Tris to a temple, perhaps, but hindsight is 20-20.
|
|
Ankhiale
Training Master
The Village Fool
Posts: 2,619
|
Post by Ankhiale on Dec 21, 2013 5:58:44 GMT 10
imaginemi - No doubt it hurt Tris. But I suspect at least part of the passing 'round to relatives thing was because they genuinely thought that would be the best - even today, a lot of people have this notion that it's best for problems, especially problems concerning kids, to be handled within the family, not just for reputation's sake but for the kid's sake. They probably felt that just giving Tris up to a temple first thing would be more like abandoning her than passing her around.
I suspect a lot of the other relatives and that first temple had no real idea what they were in for - Tris' problems sound unbelievable, even apparently in the world of Emelan. And I do suspect that at least one relative (Uraelle) convinced whoever had her last that the problem was a lack of strict discipline, which of course Uraelle would be happy to provide, and when they're scrabbling around for answers, even a bad answer sounds pretty good. I mean, even the experts had no clue what was wrong with Tris.
I do wonder, actually, how often Tris really was transferred around. We know of three places she lived prior to Winding Circle for sure: with her parents, with Uraelle, and at that other temple. Given that she was ten-ish in the first book, how often do we really think she got transferred? If we assume that this didn't start happening until she was old enough to at least remember her parents, we're looking at around 5-ish at the youngest - I kind of feel like, if we assume they didn't just up and send her on after the first incident but stuck it out for at least a few weeks/a couple months, you can probably only fit another couple rounds with relatives in there. So - and I'm not saying it wasn't horrible for Tris - I do feel like things are maybe a bit blown out of proportion, with how horribly her family supposedly treated her?
I do think there's room for her parents to have done better. I mean, for crying out loud, they could've at least visited her, or written letters to her, or something. But on the other hand - her parents are only human, too. And, y'know, as a relative of someone with a really violent temper, who's had to cut them out of my life, sometimes you ... just can't. Sometimes you're too mentally beaten down and exhausted to bother with them anymore, even though you know intellectually that it's not all their fault, even if you know they're hurting ... even if you still love them. We give Tris all the benefit of the doubt that it's taking her years to recover from the abandonment trauma her family inflicted on her - maybe we should be extending that same benefit of the doubt to her parents, and giving them years to get over the trauma of attempting to raise Tris.
I kind of feel like the people down on Tris' parents are asking them to be superhuman. Yes, the folks at Winding Circle can handle Tris - but there, her parental figures aren't just mages, but great mages, and used to dealing with extremely odd magics. They're experts, and Tris' situation required experts - not hapless people who weren't even amateurs, but just stumbling around entirely ignorant (and not through any fault of their own) of the problem. No matter if those hapless people were her parents or not. Love is wonderful, but not a cure-all. It doesn't conquer everything. I suspect in Tris' case, her parents' love made the situation worse, because I do think that's at least part of why she was shuffled off to relatives and not straight to a temple - though I doubt giving her to a temple would've made Tris feel less abandoned.
*cough* Sorry. Epic rant. But if there's one notion I despise, it's this idea that if we all just loved and cared for people, things would work out fine. Unfortunately, not only does that not always happen - that's a very, very good way to get stuck in a harmful situation. There's a reason it took me so long to cut my own relative out of my life, after all, long past when I objectively "should" have.
I also kind of hate the notion that just because something was bad for one person, or unfair to that person, there must've been a better solution somewhere. Sometimes, maybe a lot of times, there really, really isn't - at least, not without turning around and victimizing someone else. This situation is one of those: it's lose-lose. They could've maybe lost better, but not by a whole lot.
|
|
|
Post by mistrali on Dec 21, 2013 7:48:07 GMT 10
Exactly. We never see what Darra and Valden were like, and I think a large part of Tris's own residual feelings in MitW/PitS were from a couple of incidents. I mean, the kid was ten, for crying out loud. One slip, one even well-meant or benign remark, at age seven or eight can worm its way into someone's head and then amplify everything that comes after it. Especially with Tris, where *she* had no idea what she was going through, so she internalised the idea that she was cursed after, perhaps, hearing it a few times.
[TW for mentions of RL child protection]
I do wonder about her being so hostile to her father in PitS, too - and did she never try to run away to get back home? Apparently kids who've been removed by child protection services do that, no matter how horrifically their parents treat them. I do wonder if it was because she saw it as her parents betraying her, rather than its being a situation where a third party actually came and took her away against the parents' will.
|
|
Ankhiale
Training Master
The Village Fool
Posts: 2,619
|
Post by Ankhiale on Dec 21, 2013 12:13:14 GMT 10
Well, not all kids do that, though. A lot depends on the kid's personality - which I think we do have to account for with Tris. It's easy to say that her life experiences and abandonment issues made her thorny and standoffish, but she's rather like that even later when she's more certain the folks at Discipline aren't going to abandon her. I can easily see her deciding that if they didn't want her (whoever "they" are), then she didn't want them, and stamping down on any feelings otherwise.
Also, given her concern with doing things properly (the whole "proper girls wear skirts" thing), I wonder if she felt, was led to believe, or was even told that if she got her power under control (or if it went away) she could go home. And initially she was placed with family - it's entirely possible it never occurred to her to run away back home because of that. A lot depends, of course, on how close these other relatives were to her and her parents, how typical it might've been for a kid in Capchen, or just a kid in the extended Chandler clan, to stay with relatives for a while, etc. None of which we know.
I kind of wonder how big Ninver is, and how often her path (whichever place she was staying) would've crossed with her parents and the rest of her family. I wonder if Tris didn't run back home because it was clear her family was avoiding her.
...I now want a story where Tris is forced to confront all of this, forced to realize that maybe her parents weren't awful people, but just normal people stuck dealing - just like she was - with an awful situation.
The other thing I was thinking is that if you twisted the tone just slightly, Tris' story is the making of a horror story: angry, destructive, out-of-control child who even enjoys terrorizing people and crisping things with lightning (remember early on in Sandry's book how she acts? like when she makes lightning fry a tree?) is taken in by well-meaning relatives who rapidly find themselves in way over their heads.
It's kind of interesting. This whole thread really shows how strongly we tend to identify with the protagonists; these people hurt Tris, therefore they're bad people - but if the story were Darra and Valden's, or another relative's, or the first temple's, we'd see Tris as, well, something of a monster.
|
|
|
Post by mistrali on Dec 21, 2013 13:48:20 GMT 10
In canon there are hints that she used her magic as a sort of refuge as well as a buffer, so I don't wonder. I'm sure striking the tree made her feel powerful and marked her out as different and special, even if it wasn't quite at a level she could articulate. Even if the tree and the hail weren't precisely deliberate, maybe they were at least a... a sort of semi-conscious form of getting attention and a measure of control over a world she felt had abandoned her. I wouldn't say she enjoyed it, but she got some affirmation out of it. I wonder how much of that feeling persisted though post-CO with all the jealous mages and so forth: did a part of Tris wallow in her differences and see herself as somehow superior to those who were ignoring her, and did she somehow extrapolate that into an excuse rather than actively trying to make friends/acquaintances? I mean, clearly she wanted to fit in on one level, but at a deeper level, perhaps, she clung to the separateness or the special status her magic granted her. I dunno, just a thought.
|
|
Ankhiale
Training Master
The Village Fool
Posts: 2,619
|
Post by Ankhiale on Dec 21, 2013 19:08:03 GMT 10
Didn't Niko flat-out tell her at one point that she needed to stop frightening people because the people she frightened became enemies? I don't have the book in front of me, but I seem to recall something like that really early on. There were a lot of hints in the first book especially that yeah, she did revel in the power her magic gave her - she could frighten people who were mean to her, and I think you hit the nail on the head that as much as the magic made her miserable (since it was, y'know, the whole reason her family gave her up) it also affirmed her sense of being different, in a whole bunch of ways. I mean, Niko even pointed out that the whole reason he didn't tell her about her magic was that she was adamant that something worse was wrong with her, because to think otherwise was unbearable - and yet it was also pointed out that Tris enjoyed scaring people. Probably a lot of "scare them before they can abandon you" type thing, but she was a borderline bully. The only thing keeping her from actually crossing that line is that she wasn't calling up her magic deliberately.
Ah, found the reference: in Briar's book there's this line - "Learning to control her magic had meant she had to give up rewarding those people who gave cruel advice. She hadn't liked that, even when Niko pointed out that those she frightened became enemies." I mean, we know Tris has a terrifying vindictive streak - we saw it at work in Shatterglass. Frankly, while I have no doubt it's strongly influenced by her abandonment issues, it seems to run deeper than that, into her basic personality - and at least one accidental magic outburst we see from her is when she's wishing the vindictive girls would just shut up.
But vindictive streak aside, look at what she calls up before she even knows she has magic: damaging winds, hail, lightning, and a ship-killer waterspout, though the latter wasn't entirely her doing. I ... really really wonder what exactly she let loose at home, that rattled her parents so badly. Even "just" damaging wind from nowhere is bad enough - heck, that's bad even if it's not hugely damaging. But all those things are potential killers.
Edit: I should probably note that I do quite like Tris - she's my second favorite of the Circle (though it's always hard to rank them). But part of what I find compelling about her is both that she's a very flawed person (heck, that's one thing I love about all the Circle, really), and that her backstory is this sort of no-good-choices tragedy.
|
|
|
Post by mistrali on Dec 21, 2013 21:04:17 GMT 10
To be fair, the waterspout isn't her doing at all: someone spins her round while she's still bringing in water to cool off the fighting boys, and then she loses control over it. That's a very good point wrt her taking a sort of joy in hurting people - or rather in making them pay for injustice, justified or not. Briar has that ferocious anger too - witness the pirate attack - but he only uses it to help Rosethorn bury the pirates, or to rescue Evvy in Chammur. Tris, on the other hand - Tris's anger is vengeful. After they kill Aymery she is the one who goes after the pirates to make them pay, and it's Tris who's most determined to show the pirates that *they will pay* for trying to destroy her home. Yeah, the others hate them, but not to that extent IMO. Ditto, as you said, the Ghost. And as much as that anger is understandable, it is deeply rooted in the fact that she has such fearsome magic and no one, really, to stick by her until Niko comes along and solves her problem. Not only was she set apart by her magic, she came to rely on it as a means of righting wrongs because it was the only tool she had. Moreover, there was no one to teach her right from wrong- i.e. that she couldn't take the law into her own hands. I get the feeling it's a part of herself she knows is a problem and wants to subdue, but still identifies strongly with - revenge through violence/magic/power - which is what I think the going-to-Lightsbridge thing in WotE is about. Ankhiale, in an archived thread you pointed out that Tris doesn't want to do battle magic because it's an aspect of herself she hates but can't exactly resist. I think that ties into this, too. ...Holy smokes, talk about psychoanalysis. Of fictional characters, at that. Also, I really like (in the sense of being a reader, not because I'm happy the characters are miserable) that they're (well, Tris and possibly Sandry, depending on your reading of her) still dealing with their issues eight years later. It takes some people decades to let go of this kind of stuff, if they do at all. I know CO undermined that a lot, but at least there were hints. Oh, and I did want to see Daja grieve her family a little more in CoM; that would have made the TC Idaram thing more plausible in FitF, I think.
|
|
Ankhiale
Training Master
The Village Fool
Posts: 2,619
|
Post by Ankhiale on Dec 21, 2013 23:31:29 GMT 10
With the waterspout - my point wasn't that she was wholly responsible for the creation of it, but that her magic very easily spins out into disasters. Goes to grab water magically, gets physically spun ... instant ship-killer. That's how very dangerous her magic is.
I think the only other person with a similar vengeful/must-make-things-right streak - and one who apparently hasn't had a similar talk with a teacher, apparently - is Sandry. Possibly no one felt she needed it, or at least was unlikely to do serious damage - but she has more than a bit of the "you've wronged me, I'll humiliate you" thing going on.
Tris early on wants to do serious mucking around with the weather - I imagine it took a very long time for Niko and experience to teach her otherwise. That, combined with how she really does seem to viscerally enjoy making people who hurt her pay ... yeah, I think she's drawn to the battle magic/destructive aspects of her power. I mean, the thing that was kind of telling for me is that she uses her magic for basically civil engineering too ... yet it never once crosses her mind she could do that for a living. It's all this false dichotomy of "battle magic vs. academic magic".
I read all of them as still dealing with their issues - I suspect that's at the root of a lot of the stuff in WotE for all of them, not just the obvious two. It does get a bit vexing when we get near-retreads of the same plots (Briar's first two books - all about him grappling with how he's not a street rat anymore. Tris is sort of being set up for the same - a bunch of angst about how no one accepts her and she doesn't fit in), but on the other hand ... yeah, these aren't things that are just solvable with, like, one incident, so.
|
|