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Post by Lisa on Apr 4, 2009 16:30:22 GMT 10
I'm curious as to why you say this. Kel doesn't drink because she discovered that it gave her headaches and she didn't like the free feeling it gave her (i.e. she doesn't like being out of control). I don't think this has anything to do with societal norms from teenage life today - I'm sure there have always been people who don't care for the feeling of being out of control when it has nothing to do with previous opposition to "the cool kids" or anything like that.
I think that would be a more canonically-based argument if there was any mention of alcohol among her friends and comrades to base this on. We don't hear her opinion when she learns of Raoul's previous issue, and there's no tone of condmenation when she opts to have cider when Wyldon offers her wine.
What in the text would support this argument, really? I just interpreted it as: tried it - didn't really like it.
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Post by nicolasophie on Apr 4, 2009 17:26:36 GMT 10
That's what it was like in my high school - 14 year olds generally were taught "alcohol is the thing the bad girls do / alcohol/being drunk is bad", and we generally believed it until we started drinking ourselves. There are still a lot of girls at uni who are very much "eww she got drunk, she's a whore" - the guys at uni don't do this so much. I personally have been called various names / dirty looks because I got drunk at parties - and this is at uni. I know my social circle is not reflective of the norm, but it does happen. And funnily enough, I am generally the designated driver.
My impression of Kel's attitude is not based in any specific canon of her, but more of a combination of her, and the rest of the book. Sorry, i should have been more clear. It's the vibe of the book, which i know sounds ridiculous (what section of the constitution? uh... the vibe?).
Because Tammy never actually described the scene where Kel tried alcohol, and then decided she didn't like it, her 'experience' lacked legitimacy for me. I agree that it's within her character to be cautious/unwilling regarding alcohol, especially being a jock, hang overs aren't good, and some people are like that - my mum in particular hates alcohol because she can't stand not being in control. But to me, the general vibe of the book was very pure and abstaining - Flyn drank, but obviously not much, and it was almost like his 'dirty little secret' hidden away in his saddle bags that you don't take out in public. Which is normal when you've got a recovering alcoholic, but without anything balancing it out - Kel, Neal etc going to a tavern when they are free and drinking ale for an event that is not celebratory - it lead to that impression.
I got the feeling that Tammy was aware, like my high school teachers were, to not encourage the teenage drinking epidemic. In terms of Kel, i'm not saying she HAD that experience of high school, it's just that her attitude to alcohol reflects (IMO) Tammy's potential awareness of teenage alcohol - obviously if she had kel drinking as a prominent part of the novel, someone somewhere would have complained, and i associate this attitude to alcohol with my teenage years, and the girls i know who haven't matured past high school.
I liked it in Terrier that alcohol was a normal part of like - and i think it would have been a normal part of life in Kel's time too, but it was missing from the books.
Does that makes sense? Sorry if i'm being unclear - strapped to my desk today, have to finish essays, and my brain is turning to mush.
Edit: sentences not ending.
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Post by Lisa on Apr 4, 2009 22:48:25 GMT 10
No, that does make a lot of sense, but I think it's a matter of experience coloring interpretation of the text rather than letting the text speak for itself. I think because they live in a world where people drink (and probably at younger ages!), I never thought of the aspects of social pressure.
Flyndon drinking on the quiet, to me, had everything to do with Raoul not wanting to see it rather than it being dirty. And the way it was presented was very casual - a glass of wine with dinner rather than him sitting alone in his tent with a bottle of whiskey.
As I said, our experiences color our reading - I'm an older reader and was well into the world of alchohol when I read Kel's refusal in LK, and it sounded very much like my inner-monologue when I refuse alchohol, so I didn't really think anything of it. I much preferred her "meh, I don't like that" to the CoM notion of the kids getting trashed and their magic going haywire.
I agree that in Beka's existence it seems more natural - but we're also given a much more concrete reason as to why she's refusing (she's on the job). Perhaps, though, we should consider the fact that in Kel's way of thinking, she's ALWAYS on the job.
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Mina
Rider Trainee
Posts: 73
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Post by Mina on Apr 5, 2009 3:11:40 GMT 10
I was never annoyed by Kel's argument against wine. I won't drink wine either. A lot of people tend to get the worst kinds of hangovers from sweet red wine. I also was one of those girls who started drinking pretty late, mainly because most stuff I tasted before was just annoyingly disgusting to my tastebuds and I never saw the slightest reason to drink something that tasted foul to me (one of the reasons why I stay clear of beer and wine actually)
What annoyed me was the change from the very accepting stance on alcohol in SOTL to the sudden negative attitude and problems with mages drinking alcohol (a few of the mages in SOTL drink without any negative effects)- it's about keeping details strange and changing rules of the universe you are writing in to fit todays morales - which so weren't the morales of the kind of time you are trying to represent.
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