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Post by azdesertrose on Jan 8, 2023 17:57:57 GMT 10
Okay, so, we know that Thayet is very passionate about education and has pushed to make schooling available as widely as possible. In Alanna: The First Adventure, Gary (I think?) was pleased that Alanna was literate and knew basic mathematics, because it was by no means universal even among noble children, but by the time Kel starts as a page, it seems that it is taken for granted that first-year pages will be able to read, write, and figure at minimum.
Leading into an actual writing thing, I have an embryonic fanfic in my head that is set post-canon; it starts with Daine and Numair discussing what to do about Sarralyn's and Rikash's education, since they are such unusual children, and they get to thinking about themselves as children and what would have been most helpful to them (because it would probably help their children), and then the conversation wanders to the idea that if [various pedagogy techniques, approaches, and supports] are useful to children like theirs (and their own child-selves), might they not be more broadly helpful?
I want to take this in the direction of them consulting Alanna and George and then bringing a proposal to Jonathan and Thayet to create less a separate school and more a program for children of unusual abilities. I want them to consult Lady Knight Keladry at some point, because she has spent enough time teaching the children of Haven/New Hope and because while not any sort of mage, she was also an unusual child and would have good insight about how to support children (and how to minimize or--forlorn hope?--eliminate bullying).
(Admittedly, some of this is my own wishful thinking of what would have helped Child!Me and Child!My Now-Grown Daughter when we were in school, but hey, if I can't engage in wishful thinking while writing fanfic, where can I?)
So the question I'd like to throw out for commentary is, what do you think would be helpful in identifying, supporting, and educating children of unusual abilities, be they magical (Alanna, Jonathan, Arram/Numair, Daine) or something like Kel's ability to attract and keep allies, human and animal?
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Post by devilinthedetails on Jan 12, 2023 8:30:25 GMT 10
I saw this awhile ago and wanted to respond but time got the best of me! Anyway, I am finally responding now. Yay!
Yeah, Gary in Alanna: The First Adventure seemed pleasantly surprised that Alanna could read, write, and do basic arithmetic, commenting on how she'd be shocked how many noblemen son's couldn't. Alanna ties it to her father being pretty serious about book learning. I always trusted Gary to be a fairly accurate source of information in this regard since his father is Prime Minister and he's treated by the narrative as being smart, sharp guy so I tended to take his word about that. Plus like you point out the masters were testing Alanna's knowledge of literacy and mathematics when she arrived for page training whereas no comparable assessment occurred when Kel was a page. Like you said, it seemed to be a case where it was assumed that the pages would arrive knowing how to read, write, and do basic mathematics.
For your fanfic, I do wonder if you could draw on what we see of Numair's experiences at the University in Carthak in Tempests and Slaughter to get inspiration for various pedagogy techniques, approaches, and supports that could be useful to exceptional children or children with unique abilities. Perhaps the first book of the Immortals Quartet would be useful too since I think Daine remembers it being sort of traumatic and painful for her having her mother continually test her for the Gift that she turned out not to have. She actually had Wild Magic (which Jon and Numair can explain to her and Numair can start training her in). So it was probably a case where Daine's mother sensed she was different/exceptional in some way and tried to pinpoint in what way through testing for the Gift but that was frustrating for Daine since Daine didn't have the Gift and felt she was failing over and over and honestly probably felt like she was disappointing or failing her mother by not having the Gift. So I think in a way that could point to it being somewhat traumatic for children to undergo a lot of testing and assessments even if the adults giving the tests have good intentions. Especially if the child feels that they are failing the tests or their test results are somehow disappointing to their parents or other people they respect/admire like mentors or guardians.
I also wonder if a fair amount of inspiration can be taken from Carthak in general with their university that was founded apparently centuries before the one in Tortall and maybe from the Bazhir with regard to Wild Magic since Jon specifically mentions it in relation to them. So maybe Bazhir understanding of Wild Magic is more advanced than standard Tortallan understanding of Wild Magic. So an intercultural/international approach could be helpful.
Some amount of broader awareness of talents like Wild Magic would probably also be helpful. Like Kel, because of her contact with Daine, could very quickly identify that Tobe had Wild Magic. Even though Kel doesn't have Wild Magic herself, she can still identify that it is at least highly likely that Tobe has Wild Magic just seeing him interact with Peachblossom. So, I feel like more awareness of special talents like Wild Magic could help increase identification of people with these talents and help lead to those people getting support or education tailored to their talents.
Alanna really seemed to benefit from her special fencing lessons with Duke Gareth so maybe she would suggest special lessons for students identified as talented in some way. Though that also requires a special mentor in that field (like Duke Gareth is King's Champion) who is not only talented in that field but also willing to take the time and energy to educate others in it and hopefully has at least some competency in educating others (since not everyone who is gifted at something is good at passing knowledge onto others). Certainly sometimes with hockey (one of my favorite sports), the joke is that the Hall of Fame caliber players rarely make the best coaches though there are of course exceptions to that rule.
Kel definitely seemed to enjoy the special tactics/strategy seminars Wyldon offered the pages after the run in with the bandits in Page. I think he brought in sort of a rotating cast of guests for that so maybe something similar catered to different areas of interest could be useful. I also thought it was pretty effective leadership training how Wyldon had the pages practice leading each other in mock combat situations. Maybe she would look back on that and suggest something similar especially for potential young commanders like herself. I also know that she resented/grumbled about it at the time but I do wonder if she would look back on things like Wyldon setting more difficult assignments for the more advanced pages in tilting and archery as useful. Basically, the idea of providing separate tracks for different types of learners depending on their level. Honestly, I do think that Wyldon did have some very solid ideas and innovations as training master even though he had his flaws when it came to hazing (though in fairness so did Duke Gareth in my opinion) and with regard to Kel's probation (though we also don't know how someone like Duke Gareth would've reacted if Alanna announced from the beginning that she wanted to train as a girl and hadn't disguised herself as a boy, making Duke Gareth's interactions with her as a page and squire being someone he thought was a boy).
We also know that Tortall has apprenticeships so maybe that could be part of the education and support of talented children and children with unusual abilities. I also feel like the Royal University Jon and Thayet established could have a role to play in this. Maybe Dean Haralit would have some insights to offer as well especially since I imagine he would've encountered some gifted minds and students while running the Royal University. We don't really know too much about the Royal University in canon, so the author's imagination is quite free to roam in that regard.
There are also the Mithran monks who teach magic and other arts/fields in the City of the Gods. Some of the Mithran monks might have some insights into education.
And the convents seem to have a role especially in educating the daughters of nobles so perhaps they could be involved in the discussions as well.
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Post by azdesertrose on Jan 13, 2023 16:17:57 GMT 10
I concur that putting kids through battery upon battery of tests is the wrong idea. I'm thinking that perhaps they could train mages (presumably most Tortallan schools have at least one Gifted teacher) to look for unusual talents. It seems like Numair's ability to see magical auras is not particularly common, but there might be some way, perhaps a variant of a scrying spell? Kel picked up on Tobe's wild magic pretty quickly, so that's another reason I think she'd be a good consultant. Kel would also likely raise the point of using the system to identify children in unsafe situations and come up with ways to help (which is a tough thing to do, but it's the sort of task from which Lady Knight Keladry has never shrunk). Daine would raise the concern of children in remote/rural areas; Alanna would probably think of children being pushed to pursue interests they don't want, and while I'm sure she'd be the first to admit that learning is not always fun, she would also want to find a way to keep children from being forced into roles they actively hate. Numair thinks of the massive variety of studies available at the Imperial University and starts to develop an exhibition of studies so that students can see what their options are and what someone can do with that skill/information/training. Why am I not surprised that this story idea is getting a bad case of scope creep? (Story of my life. If not every project I do, a good many of my ideas start small and snowball, ROFL.)
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