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Post by katanasundancer on Aug 21, 2022 1:36:06 GMT 10
I'm doing up family trees for all of the known characters (I'm keeping one restricted to canon info only, and another for my OCs and headcanons).
Emry of Haryse had three children - Glaisdan (his heir), Roxanne (married to Martin of Meron) and Wilina (married to, of course, Duke Baird of Queenscove). Glaisdan died during Squire, and as per the rules of the King's Own, had to have been unmarried and therefore would have no legitimate children.
So who ends up with Haryse? Did Emry have brothers whose lines could inherit? Can it be passed through a female line? Could Neal end up with both Queenscove and Haryse? If not, does it just pass back to the crown?
Part of me wants to just say "Neal gets it" to compound the pressure that one of our favourite Healer-Knights is under. However, that would mean Neal would already be a Lord (as we have no confirmation of any other rank being held for Haryse). But the idea of "Lord Nealan" amuses me greatly.
Anyway, I'd love some opinions, discussion, theories, anything!
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Post by Seek on Aug 28, 2022 9:50:54 GMT 10
We have q-canon from Pierce that inheritance rules are unique to each fief, and determined by the fief's charter with the Crown. I think she suggests as well that Emry could still change the rules if he wanted to, e.g. if he wanted to let a daughter inherit, or so on. (Edit: No, I can't find that - something about how the Trebonds were sexist and so it's their fault the line died out since Alanna was barred from inheriting, but quote not located.) Sourced from here. Also reinforced here: I take the point to be that it really depends on the royal grant. If the royal grant (which would probably be with the first Haryse of the current line) allows female line inheritance if there are no men (insert three degrees of cousinship caveat), or just goes by order of birth, or so on. I think it's hinted Haryse is fairly old, and given Glaisdan's snobbery towards anyone who isn't in the Books of Gold or Silver, I think we can assume the line was unbroken and odds that it is male-line only are fairly high. If Emry has brothers, sure, it might go to male heir cousins within three degrees, just like in the case of Trebond. In a world where it passes through the female line as well and Wilina inherits, then I think it is possible for Neal to get both. We know this from q-canon that Thom (as in, Alanna's son) is slated to inherit both Olau and Pirate's Swoop. But I think that's unlikely. We also know that Wilina is the younger of the two daughters, so properly it goes to Roxanne, if it can at all. And we do know it passes back to the Crown if there are no suitable heirs as stipulated in the royal grant. One route we've not considered is that since Emry is alive, he might very well be able to adopt an heir (this would be complicated, but I think in such a world, Neal wouldn't lose Queenscove, just as Alanna was referred to as being from Trebond and Olau before that.) Anyway, I presume the ducal title would take precedence. What would be really interesting, if you want Lord Nealan, is if Emry dies, and Neal inherits, and then he is Lord Sir Nealan of Queenscove and Haryse (since his father will still be Duke Baird.) Presumably the ducal title only supersedes the lord title once Neal inherits Queenscove. tldr; it is not impossible that Neal could inherit, we don't know enough about how inheritance works for Haryse but could likely make some educated guesses, but I'd call it an outsider bet. Based off what we know, it should either go to a cadet branch if there are close male cousins, go to Roxanne instead and so Hildrec of Meron after her, or if not, it should go back to the Crown.
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Post by katanasundancer on Sept 15, 2022 19:14:08 GMT 10
Thank you, I had seen those quotes before, but it has been a while.
I thought Roxanne was the younger sister for some reason (possibly because of hvane's Rampant series 😁).
I do agree that the ducal title would only become relevant when Neal actually inherits.
What would make more sense to me is, if one person has multiple fiefs and multiple children, to have the eldest (whether pure primogeniture or male primogeniture) inherit the first or more prominent title, and the next along inherit the other.
Like if Raoul has two children, the eldest could inherit Goldenlake and the second could inherit Malorie's Peak. Or in the weird weird case of Seabeth and Seajen, where (according to Words of Tamora Pierce) Ilane of Mindelan is set to inherit half (Beth or Jen, who knows). So Anders would inherit Mindelan, and Innes, or perhaps one of the girls, could inherit the Seabeth/Jen half-fief.
Inheritance laws are WILD.
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Post by Seek on Sept 15, 2022 23:11:05 GMT 10
What would make more sense to me is, if one person has multiple fiefs and multiple children, to have the eldest (whether pure primogeniture or male primogeniture) inherit the first or more prominent title, and the next along inherit the other. Like if Raoul has two children, the eldest could inherit Goldenlake and the second could inherit Malorie's Peak. Or in the weird weird case of Seabeth and Seajen, where (according to Words of Tamora Pierce) Ilane of Mindelan is set to inherit half (Beth or Jen, who knows). So Anders would inherit Mindelan, and Innes, or perhaps one of the girls, could inherit the Seabeth/Jen half-fief. Inheritance laws are WILD. As you pointed out, Seabeth and Seajen does that. But it seems that Pirate's Swoop and Olau don't do that. So it really depends. I strongly suspect that the lord/duke/baron of the fief can change the royal charter to allow/alter the way the inheritance works. But I suspect that it'll be uncommon due to the fact it would sort of dilute the family's direct holdings.
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Post by katanasundancer on Sept 18, 2022 19:51:29 GMT 10
That does make sense, to kind of consolidate power through property and takings.
The magistrates that handle inheritance and property laws would have to be on top of their game.
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