oskarshai
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Justice for Mammoth
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Post by oskarshai on Aug 2, 2021 18:26:06 GMT 10
So in case anyone hadn't heard this, it came down the grapevine in 2019 that Lionsgate was planning a TV series based on the Tortall books. There don't appear to have been any new developments on that front since then (other than an IMDB page being put up), so it's not clear whether the project has stagnated, been put on hold because of COVID, or been cancelled – in other words, there's no guarantee that it'll happen at all. But, that hasn't stopped me from getting hype as heck about it and spending a lot of time speculating about what it might end up being like. So I thought I'd start a little thread about it!
Officially, this is a thread for your personal wishes for or worries about how the adaptation might be handled, but any and all speculation is welcome.
My personal thoughts:
Wishes:
- Unknown actors cast rather than big names. Fancasting is fun and all, but whenever already-bankable leads are on the table, I tend to stop trusting the ability of the casting department to not give a role to someone distracting and/or unsuited for it. Given the vibes in the article (Lionsgate making a big foray into TV, trying to kind of have their own Game of Thrones-type thing) I think casting unknowns is a lot more likely, but I just dearly hope that the casting is absolutely perfect and full of faces I have either not seen before or seen very little of.
- Filling in some blanks wrt plot and characters. I'm assuming that the first thing to be adapted will be SOTL, which is probably Tammy's clunkiest work writing-wise and contains a lot of substantial time-skips and telling rather than showing. I would love to see a thoughtfully written fleshing-out of Alanna's relationship to Delia, for instance.
- An awesome score containing zero pop songs. My hopes are high, I know. But the potential! - Updating the romance plotlines. I don't know how this would work exactly, but most if not all of them will probably need some brushing up for a modern TV audience to want to engage with them. - Beefing up Roger's villainy and presence in the story. (I'm selfish. I want more of my boi. Can you blame me.) - Good fight choreography. It's probably greedy of me and might be one of the less realistic wishes on here, but I would love to be able to actually see Alanna's skill at fencing rather than just being told that she's one of the best.
No Thank You: - Gaslight-gatekeep-girlboss (White Feminism) energy. The books are feminist enough without adding any corny girl-power moments (I'm thinking of, like, how the recent trend of Disney remakes have handled their heroines).
- Game of Thrones-level gore or sexual content for cred or shock value. Might be a bit obvious to note, but the books are YA and while I'm okay with the story being potentially made a bit darker in adaptation to try and manage the tone changes between the different series, it should still be watchable by the same audience that reads the books.
- Adding a bunch of arbitrary rules to the Gift to try and make it a harder magic system. As much as I like hard magic systems, to my mind that's not the interesting part of these books.
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Post by mistrali on Aug 2, 2021 21:35:37 GMT 10
I like all those! Hopefully it won’t be snapped up by someone looking to make GOT Redux.
Here are mine:
Don’t cast any white actors for POTS or SOTL! Racebent Tortall for the win. A couple of us on the discord had a headcanon that the Naxens were Bazhir, and I am all for it. I also headcanon (I think outright jossed, but whatever) that the Tasrides were Bazhir.
*cough* Oh, you meant something plausible.
1. Maybe more relevant to the Emelan books, but all I ask is no whitewashing of canonical characters of colour. Seriously, I know many of them are minor characters, but if they make Sarge or Thayet or Alex white, most of the fandom is going to be very upset. And so will Tammy, I hope - as much of an issue as I have with some of her stuff, she has learnt a lot about race over the past few decades. Likewise Numair.
2. For WWRLAM, make it a little less white-saviour lite. Like, I love Alanna, but maybe they could ease up a bit on the ‘those Bedouin tribespeople’ narrative and develop the Bazhir a little more. Give them a Day of Mourning perhaps, on the same day as the coronation (not my headcanon, but I like it). Ftr you can tell the Bloody Hawk genuinely appreciates Alanna’s help, so it’s a little more ‘knight saviour’ in amongst the ‘white saviour’. I love Alanna learning from Kara and Kourrem - it’s one of the nicest parts of the series.
But “the Bazhir couldn’t vanquish the Ysandir because of reasons” needs to be changed because that is very white-saviour.
3. More Ali Mukhtab because the guy rocks and is criminally underutilised. If they could keep him alive, that would be nice. I never cry at media, but his death on screen will do it for me.
4. Develop Sarain a little? I dunno.
5. If they adapt Trickster I hope they revamp the living daylights out of it.
Yeah, that’s all I can think of. Don’t have much of an opinion about POTS or PD.
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purplepotatoblob
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'From now on I'm Alan of Trebond, the younger twin. I'll be a knight.' - Alanna
Posts: 45
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Post by purplepotatoblob on Aug 3, 2021 12:01:12 GMT 10
Hehe I’m just going to make a quick post for the fun of it— I really hope they’re going to include more teen actors— tbh the only red headed actor I know is Amybeth Mcnulty (watched Anne With An E, anyone?) but I don’t think she could fit the Alanna bill because she’s tall like heck (unlike me— I’m ridiculously short). I’d also really love it to see them develop the Bazhir and their traditions more because I think it would be really interesting!!
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oskarshai
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Justice for Mammoth
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Post by oskarshai on Aug 3, 2021 12:12:14 GMT 10
Hehe I’m just going to make a quick post for the fun of it— I really hope they’re going to include more teen actors— tbh the only red headed actor I know is Amybeth Mcnulty (watched Anne With An E, anyone?) but I don’t think she could fit the Alanna bill because she’s tall like heck (unlike me— I’m ridiculously short). I’d also really love it to see them develop the Bazhir and their traditions more because I think it would be really interesting!! Teen actors are a must for sure. Ideally, I think, if they expect it to be a long project (which is the vibe I was picking up), they might cast younger actors with the expectation that they stay signed on long enough to play the same character as a young adult, in the vein of projects like GoT, Harry Potter, and potentially Stranger Things. The simpler/less risky route would be to just cast different actors for each phase of the character's life, which I would prefer that they not do because I don't think that method lands as well for a long-term audience. But yeah, coming of age is a huge element of each story and Alanna's narrative in particular starts very young, so I hope (and expect) that they do cast younger up-and-comers.
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Post by MythicMistress on Aug 15, 2021 21:28:36 GMT 10
I wish a Tortall series could be animated, perhaps good enough voice actors could handle playing the characters at multiple ages/as they grew up... Unfortunately, it would likely be too expensive. Series with plenty of action usually are.
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purplepotatoblob
Message Runner
'From now on I'm Alan of Trebond, the younger twin. I'll be a knight.' - Alanna
Posts: 45
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Post by purplepotatoblob on Aug 15, 2021 23:23:45 GMT 10
I wish a Tortall series could be animated, perhaps good enough voice actors could handle playing the characters at multiple ages/as they grew up... Unfortunately, it would likely be too expensive. Series with plenty of action usually are. hmmm I think you'd need a very good artist to do that but I think i'd prefer for the characters to be portrayed in the flesh because it would be way more convincing
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purplepotatoblob
Message Runner
'From now on I'm Alan of Trebond, the younger twin. I'll be a knight.' - Alanna
Posts: 45
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Post by purplepotatoblob on Aug 15, 2021 23:26:42 GMT 10
ALSO ALSO I HOPE THEY FEATURE SHINKO AND YUKI AND HANA BECAUSE I NEED TO SEE MORE ASIAN CHARACTERS IN TORTALL LIKE ASAP BEFORE I GO MAD LIKE HECK
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Post by MythicMistress on Aug 16, 2021 0:16:02 GMT 10
Other things I've thought of regarding an animated adaptation: the stigma surrounding animation as a whole- you know, the "animation is for the immature" thing. (That way of thinking can go die in a fire if you ask me.) It would likely scare off a significant chunk of potential audience, to say nothing of it bringing the concerned parent groups out of the woodwork. Maybe we should just forget about me wishing for an animated adaptation...
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oskarshai
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Justice for Mammoth
Posts: 47
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Post by oskarshai on Aug 16, 2021 5:00:57 GMT 10
Other things I've thought of regarding an animated adaptation: the stigma surrounding animation as a whole- you know, the "animation is for the immature" thing. (That way of thinking can go die in a fire if you ask me.) It would likely scare off a significant chunk of potential audience, to say nothing of it bringing the concerned parent groups out of the woodwork. Maybe we should just forget about me wishing for an animated adaptation... I don't think that's true. Animated shows nowadays usually have a pretty easy time finding an audience, especially if they're targeted at a child or YA audience but have thoughtful or dark subject matter and a compelling arc-based story (thinking, like, Steven Universe, Avatar, Owl House). Who knows, maybe if this adaptation is successful and popularizes the franchise further, we could get an animated adaptation down the line. Never say never.
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Post by MythicMistress on Aug 18, 2021 4:06:07 GMT 10
Other things I've thought of regarding an animated adaptation: the stigma surrounding animation as a whole- you know, the "animation is for the immature" thing. (That way of thinking can go die in a fire if you ask me.) It would likely scare off a significant chunk of potential audience, to say nothing of it bringing the concerned parent groups out of the woodwork. Maybe we should just forget about me wishing for an animated adaptation... I don't think that's true. Animated shows nowadays usually have a pretty easy time finding an audience, especially if they're targeted at a child or YA audience but have thoughtful or dark subject matter and a compelling arc-based story (thinking, like, Steven Universe, Avatar, Owl House). Who knows, maybe if this adaptation is successful and popularizes the franchise further, we could get an animated adaptation down the line. Never say never. You do have a point. I shouldn't have let my pessimism get the better of me. (Stupid depression brain.) That said, I would like to see the depiction of the Bazhir be updated and less White Savior-ish. Like getting rid of Jonathan and Alanna being implied to be the Night One and Burning Brightly One.
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Post by mistrali on Aug 29, 2021 13:55:18 GMT 10
And also, less straightforward parallels to real-world countries (Sarain/Thailand, Japan/Yaman, Tortall/mediaeval Western Europe. I like the way the Copper Isles does it: having a mix of South American and Indonesian.
For the show, I’d like them to invent more fantasy concepts/objects to make these countries feel more like distinct fantasy lands and less like Expies.
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oskarshai
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Justice for Mammoth
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Post by oskarshai on Aug 30, 2021 8:54:15 GMT 10
And also, less straightforward parallels to real-world countries (Sarain/Thailand, Japan/Yaman, Tortall/mediaeval Western Europe. I like the way the Copper Isles does it: having a mix of South American and Indonesian. For the show, I’d like them to invent more fantasy concepts/objects to make these countries feel more like distinct fantasy lands and less like Expies. Don't forget Hawaiian and Indian! But yeah, I agree. It's more fun if the fictional cultures kind of have their own spin to them and only have minor (and varied) connections to real-life groups.
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Post by mistrali on Aug 31, 2021 0:01:06 GMT 10
And also, less straightforward parallels to real-world countries (Sarain/Thailand, Japan/Yaman, Tortall/mediaeval Western Europe. I like the way the Copper Isles does it: having a mix of South American and Indonesian. For the show, I’d like them to invent more fantasy concepts/objects to make these countries feel more like distinct fantasy lands and less like Expies. Don't forget Hawaiian and Indian! But yeah, I agree. It's more fun if the fictional cultures kind of have their own spin to them and only have minor (and varied) connections to real-life groups. Yeah. Tammy’s earlier works occasionally describe magic a smidge stereotypically as compared to the dominant or POV society’s magical structure. So the Qidao dance mages in Emelan are suddenly (in narration) “shamans”. The Bazhir are likewise, when she would never use this structure with white mages. The word ‘shaman’ has no place in a society where magic is tangible and real and no mention is made of communing with one’s ancestors, for instance. ibn Nazzir is just a plain old mage (and so is Alanna). Magic becomes “raka magic”, rather than simply “hidden magic”. It would be nice for more equal language to be used throughout the TV show. They’re all subtleties, but they make a difference in the final product.
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purplepotatoblob
Message Runner
'From now on I'm Alan of Trebond, the younger twin. I'll be a knight.' - Alanna
Posts: 45
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Post by purplepotatoblob on Sept 3, 2021 0:07:34 GMT 10
And also, less straightforward parallels to real-world countries (Sarain/Thailand, Japan/Yaman, Tortall/mediaeval Western Europe. I like the way the Copper Isles does it: having a mix of South American and Indonesian. For the show, I’d like them to invent more fantasy concepts/objects to make these countries feel more like distinct fantasy lands and less like Expies. Definitely! I mean, you can't make a country that isn't unique on its own...
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purplepotatoblob
Message Runner
'From now on I'm Alan of Trebond, the younger twin. I'll be a knight.' - Alanna
Posts: 45
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Post by purplepotatoblob on Sept 30, 2021 23:47:44 GMT 10
Okay to be honest I think that if they adapted it like Netflix adapted Shadow and Bone recently (I haven't watched it but I've read the books and seen the trailer) I think the effect would be really amazing! After all, if they can animate it in a real-life way, it's probably pretty easy to come up with actual-looking magic and mythical creatures (PLEASE WHERE ARE ALL THE S&B AND SOC FANS LOOK AT ALINA THE SUN SUMMONER AND THE NICHEVO'YA)! I can't wait
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Post by Lady Olive of Masbolle on Nov 9, 2021 4:22:45 GMT 10
I agree with so much of this. Definitely with the integrity to characters of color, and bringing out those that are clearly of color yet not overtly stated (Daine, Lalasa) and adding many more (Raoul, the Naxens) etc. <3 It is so fascinating, exciting and terrifying to think of this precious world being brought to the screen. I read somewhere they only bought the Tortall Universe, but who knows. Something else I read either speculated or postulated that they would mash up the Tortall series and not go in chronological order, essentially rewriting everything into a new story, with the same characters and many of the same plot points. I think that would be total insanity, personally, but I do totally agree SOTL is very clunky and would need a lot of work to adapt well to the screen. The Immortals would be *easier to adapt, and POTS would be the easiest, I believe. I would watch multiple seasons of just POTS, heh, but I'm a major Kel simp. Aly's books could easily be woven into the latter part of POTS. My simpleton mind can really only imagine it done in chronological order, although I don't know if Beka's books would be the best way to start. I think my biggest wish for the show would be for Tammy to be the head writer lolol. A girl can DREAM! But I think with super good writers, high production value, and a largely unknown cast; we will have a REAL glorious hit on our hands <3
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oskarshai
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Justice for Mammoth
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Post by oskarshai on Nov 13, 2021 17:09:56 GMT 10
I agree with so much of this. Definitely with the integrity to characters of color, and bringing out those that are clearly of color yet not overtly stated (Daine, Lalasa) and adding many more (Raoul, the Naxens) etc. <3 It is so fascinating, exciting and terrifying to think of this precious world being brought to the screen. I read somewhere they only bought the Tortall Universe, but who knows. Something else I read either speculated or postulated that they would mash up the Tortall series and not go in chronological order, essentially rewriting everything into a new story, with the same characters and many of the same plot points. I think that would be total insanity, personally, but I do totally agree SOTL is very clunky and would need a lot of work to adapt well to the screen. The Immortals would be *easier to adapt, and POTS would be the easiest, I believe. I would watch multiple seasons of just POTS, heh, but I'm a major Kel simp. Aly's books could easily be woven into the latter part of POTS. My simpleton mind can really only imagine it done in chronological order, although I don't know if Beka's books would be the best way to start. I think my biggest wish for the show would be for Tammy to be the head writer lolol. A girl can DREAM! But I think with super good writers, high production value, and a largely unknown cast; we will have a REAL glorious hit on our hands <3 I was considering the Beka books wrt the chronology and one thing I think they might do is interweave flashbacks to pieces of Beka's storyline into a storyline involving George, since we know he has a bit more going on in SOTL than Alanna is directly involved in (ie, a lot of potential for George-centric intrigue) and it would be interesting to parallel him with his ancestor and explore the similarities and differences of Corus in Beka's day and in his. I think that would dovetail a lot more easily with the rest of the series – if they fully adapted the Beka books on their own, they would have to suddenly switch genres from a blend of adventure & political drama to something closer to a police procedural, which I doubt would play as well in a series as it does in the books. Plus there's already the built-in framing device of George hearing stories about his ancestor from his mother as a kid, which kind of backfills Beka and George's knowledge of her into SOTL.
That said, maybe instead they'll do something like the Defenders group of shows on Netflix (Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, and Defenders), where each character gets their own separate, self-contained series with a shared canon and some overlap between them. That would probably be simpler and allow for a lot more flexibility in genre and tone between the different stories, although I don't know how viable that model is for a company like Lionsgate that doesn't have their own streaming platform.
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