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Post by devilinthedetails on Nov 14, 2018 2:35:27 GMT 10
I thought it might be cool to dive into some moments where characters and their motivations became real for us, moments where we connected to a character on a deeper level.
Some of my personal examples are:
1) Neal really clicked for me as a character after he explained to Kel that he wanted to train as a knight to continue the Queenscove tradition of always having a knight in service to the Crown. Before that I had enjoyed his snark as a counterpoint to Kel's serenity, but at that moment he became very complex to me, someone who scoffs at tradition but still has an abiding concern for the honor of his family name, a very traditional motivation in a way but somehow believable from Neal.
2) Jon really clicked for me in Lioness Rampant in that scene where he is very open and vulnerable with Gary. I just got the sense of how devastating it must be for him to lose his parents in such sort succession and despite his heartbreak be expected to lead the realm. I think this moment is very much a defining one for Jon as a person and as a king. This moment really helped me reconnect with Jon after becoming sort of frustrated with his immaturity in the second and third Alanna books.
3) Wyldon clicks for me at the end of Page when he is all determined that Lalasa's kidnapper be found and he starts to thaw toward Keladry. There I really see how much he is driven by his sense of honor and fairness. After that, Wyldon works incredibly well for me in Squire and Lady Knight. Every time I re-read the books that feels like a pivotal moment in Wyldon's growth as a character.
I'd love to read some of your examples!
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Post by Lisa on Dec 6, 2018 6:11:27 GMT 10
I think we're going to get along well. Your numbers 2 and 3 are very much in sync with mine. I think The Immortals is a harder series for me because it took me so long to get that click. I think Daine didn't make completely sense to me until Wolf Speaker, when I saw her focus on the Long Lake pack. Numair clicked when I saw him with Ozorne in Carthak. Up until then his motivation felt very much focused on magic and not people, but for me Emperor Mage was the turning point.
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Post by devilinthedetails on Dec 6, 2018 9:12:30 GMT 10
I think we're going to get along well. Your numbers 2 and 3 are very much in sync with mine. I think The Immortals is a harder series for me because it took me so long to get that click. I think Daine didn't make completely sense to me until Wolf Speaker, when I saw her focus on the Long Lake pack. Numair clicked when I saw him with Ozorne in Carthak. Up until then his motivation felt very much focused on magic and not people, but for me Emperor Mage was the turning point. Judging by your avatar I think we'll be like two peas in a pod. Your Immortals examples are great. I remember relating Daine in Wild Magic more for her connections with people like Onua, Sarge, Miri, and Evin but not so much for her magical ability to communicate with animals, which I kind of found less engaging than her relationships with the Riders. The same was also true for me in Emperor Mage where I was more interested in exploring Carthak and in her interactions with Kaddar than I was with her talking to animals. I do feel that Wolf Speaker was the book where her animal powers felt the most real and engaging to me. I just feel that we get a sense of the wolves as individuals and of Daine's connection with them in that book, and that made her magic with animals work best for me in that book. I think you're right about Numair's motivations becoming much more real in Emperor Mage. Once we meet Ozorne, seeing who he is and how he rules, we understand more why Numair fled Carthak.I did love meeting all the people from Numair's past, Lindhall, Varice, and Ozorne in Emperor Mage. It made Numair's past feel more relatable to be introduced to these characters and sort of see how they influenced Numair.
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Post by westernsunset on Dec 22, 2018 3:27:50 GMT 10
It took forever for me to really understand Aly as a character. I don't even think she really clicked for me until Trickster's Queen, particularly as she cemented her role in the rebellion. In re-reading the Trickster books last year, I saw how she grows as a character from a fairly flighty girl into a dedicated and passionate young woman, and watching her bring together all the different parts of the rebellion made me understand who she was and how she worked.
Wyldon actually didn't click for me until Lady Knight when we saw him as something other than a training master. Only when we got to see Wyldon doing something he actually enjoyed did I understand how seriously he took his duty, even when it was something he didn't want to do.
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Post by devilinthedetails on Dec 22, 2018 5:21:15 GMT 10
It took forever for me to really understand Aly as a character. I don't even think she really clicked for me until Trickster's Queen, particularly as she cemented her role in the rebellion. In re-reading the Trickster books last year, I saw how she grows as a character from a fairly flighty girl into a dedicated and passionate young woman, and watching her bring together all the different parts of the rebellion made me understand who she was and how she worked. Wyldon actually didn't click for me until Lady Knight when we saw him as something other than a training master. Only when we got to see Wyldon doing something he actually enjoyed did I understand how seriously he took his duty, even when it was something he didn't want to do. It's interesting that you bring up Aly because I had difficulty relating to her because her reactions to a lot of things just don't seem to make that much sense to me. It's funny because I could understand Aly and her behavior when she was at Pirate's Swoop. Her interactions with her mother rang very true to me and in a way where I felt I could feel sympathy for both sides, not having to label either perspective as necessarily right so I could recognize both Aly and Alanna as flawed people with a complicated relationship. Those are the family dynamics I love to see in fiction, and they don't always get much attention in fantasy, so I loved seeing that (however briefly) in Trickster's Choice. That's part of why I still wish that the Daughter of the Lioness series had been a separate one from the Trickster's one, which I think could have been really awesome if it focused on Dove and/or Sarai, because I do think there was enough story to tell about Aly in Tortall dealing with her family and their expectations for her and finding her own path apart from her mother's legacy. I don't necessarily think the Copper Isles had to be part of her journey at all. Anyway, Aly sort of stopped clicking for me after she was kidnapped by pirates and sold into slavery, and she just kind of embraces the whole thing as a game. It just didn't seem like a human reaction to me, and it was kind of hard for me to sympathize with her there since that should be a growing moment for her as a character but instead she is remaining very static there. I do think by the end of the duology she has matured and accepted more responsibilities and come to see spywork as more than a game but there were definitely times she really lost me along the way. I think Lady Knight is a great character book for Wyldon, and I can understand him not clicking with you until then. That scene where Wyldon introduces Kel to the refugees is always a standout to me because we see him interacting with commoners with a lot of respect and joking around with them. Before that, we never got to see Wyldon joke, so it's like we are as Kel notes seeing him in an environment where he is truly comfortable for the first time, and the fact that the environment is a place full of refugees that a lot of nobles wouldn't want to be in is to me amazing characterization. Overall I think that Lady Knight just has some epic characterization of a lot of characters, which makes it one of my favorite Tamora Pierce books.
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