Varice

[Kypriotha]

I really liked Varice in this book. I like how skillfully she manipulated social situations (and Ozorne) to keep things peaceful. I like how ambitious she is. I like that she is aware of how others view her craft and corrects them by pointing out the damage that can be done with kitchen magic.

I also like how I could see how she'll end up in the position she was in in Emperor Mage. How she probably felt she couldn't (or actually genuinely couldn't) leave Ozorne and how she would fall into the position of managing his kitchens and entertaining. It's a big important job and it's what they always said they would do, but with Arram gone and whatever falling out he and Ozorne have, I can see how she would lose some of her ambition, because it was meant to be the three of them.

Not that I think she lacks ambition in her role in Ozorne's court - it's a high profile job, and a difficult one navigating all the politics, and she's clearly more than up to the task - but it is a bit of a departure from some of the things she expressed in this book.

Other's thoughts?

[devilinthedetails]

I really loved Varice's portrayal in this book so much so that she might have been my favorite character. She was so smart not only academically but socially adept. To me, a big part of what made her so interesting was that she was more of a "traditional" female character than Tammy typically depicts in the Tortall universe, and I just find it fascinating to see the power that a more traditional female character can wield in a more feminine sphere. one of my favorite scenes was where she defended her use of cooking magic to Ozorne's mother, and we can see how that philosophy links with what she is doing in Emperor Mage.

I thought she was quicker to defend or excuse Ozorne's problematic behavior than Arram was so I could see how she ended up staying at his court in a prominent role. Some of her staying there might have been fear of Ozorne but another part of it might have been a sort of loyalty to the friend she'd once had in him and maybe a sympathy for the mental issues that he dealt with. There could be a lot of complexity in her choice to remain at Ozorne's court.

Anyway, I really enjoyed what Tammy did with Varice's character in this book, and I'm so eager to see where her journey goes next.

[Rachy]

Varice reminded me of Sandry, and I didn’t feel like I got a real sense of her. I know that in EM we see her from Daine’s jealousy, but I didn’t quite get her motivations? Like there were flashes of her charm and light manipulations, but I’m not sure why she is with Ozorne? And then there’s the suss feeling from his mother’s treatment?

[devilinthedetails]

Mar 18, 2018 10:17:55 GMT 10 Rachy said:

Varice reminded me of Sandry, and I didn’t feel like I got a real sense of her. I know that in EM we see her from Daine’s jealousy, but I didn’t quite get her motivations? Like there were flashes of her charm and light manipulations, but I’m not sure why she is with Ozorne? And then there’s the suss feeling from his mother’s treatment?

It's a bit harder to get a read on Varice's motivations, I think, because we don't get to see her thoughts and feelings the way we do Arram's. My take on her is she seems to be someone who wants to smooth over situations, create peace and cooperation between people, but also manipulate situations to her advantage. I pretty much see her motivation as making life as peaceful and comfortable for herself and others as possible. She really seems to want to avoid conflicts and unpleasantness, which is part of the reason why I believe she appeases Ozorne more than Arram does. However, since we don't see her thoughts and feelings, there does seem to be a lot more room for speculation and interpretation with regard to her motivations.

Why exactly she is friends with Ozorne is a bit difficult to pinpoint since they are already friends when the story starts so we don't see their friendship form as we do Arram's and Ozorne's. I guess she and Ozorne were attracted to each other because they are both smart and powerful mages, and Varice does seem to have a knack for calming him down when he's in his moods as much as anyone can.

[aki]

Feb 26, 2018 23:26:25 GMT 10 devilinthedetails said:

To me, a big part of what made her so interesting was that she was more of a "traditional" female character than Tammy typically depicts in the Tortall universe, and I just find it fascinating to see the power that a more traditional female character can wield in a more feminine sphere.

Totally agree. Although I love female characters who break the mold and dominate in traditionally masculine spaces it was really nice to see a female character kickass in this very unique more "traditionally female" way. I just reread Emperor Mage as well and I really felt like I could connect to her character more after seeing her portrayal here in T&S.

As for her motivations and why she puts up with Ozorne... Ozorne really didn't bother me at the beginning of the book except for his blatant racism. That is a very big "except," but given his upbringing and social status and the death of his father you can understand why he acts that way. It could be internalized misogyny rearing its ugly head again, but it honestly bothered me more to see how willing Varice was to brush it under the rug. I feel like with her social grace she could have really helped Ozorne to see the immorality of his actions. When she does tell Arram not to talk about it the reason is because "of how it upsets him" and there's no mention of how it's just morally wrong to hate someone for their race/ethnicity. She also enjoys the gladiator games, like Ozorne, which Arram very much doesn't.

Anyway a lot of the reasons I think Varice and Ozorne are friends is because I think that Varice's upbringing being on the upper class side of things means she holds the same general views as Ozorne. She doesn't seem to think slavery is a problem or that the arena is bad, so of course when Ozorne shares this uglier side of himself in regards to those things she doesn't see it as an ugly side at all. At least, that's the feeling I got and so as for 'putting up with him,' I don't think she sees it that way at all.

That being said I really did like her character and all of her 'brotherly' kisses.

[devilinthedetails]

Mar 28, 2018 15:59:07 GMT 10 aki said:

Feb 26, 2018 23:26:25 GMT 10 devilinthedetails said:

To me, a big part of what made her so interesting was that she was more of a "traditional" female character than Tammy typically depicts in the Tortall universe, and I just find it fascinating to see the power that a more traditional female character can wield in a more feminine sphere.

Totally agree. Although I love female characters who break the mold and dominate in traditionally masculine spaces it was really nice to see a female character kickass in this very unique more "traditionally female" way. I just reread Emperor Mage as well and I really felt like I could connect to her character more after seeing her portrayal here in T&S.

As for her motivations and why she puts up with Ozorne... Ozorne really didn't bother me at the beginning of the book except for his blatant racism. That is a very big "except," but given his upbringing and social status and the death of his father you can understand why he acts that way. It could be internalized misogyny rearing its ugly head again, but it honestly bothered me more to see how willing Varice was to brush it under the rug. I feel like with her social grace she could have really helped Ozorne to see the immorality of his actions. When she does tell Arram not to talk about it the reason is because "of how it upsets him" and there's no mention of how it's just morally wrong to hate someone for their race/ethnicity. She also enjoys the gladiator games, like Ozorne, which Arram very much doesn't.

Anyway a lot of the reasons I think Varice and Ozorne are friends is because I think that Varice's upbringing being on the upper class side of things means she holds the same general views as Ozorne. She doesn't seem to think slavery is a problem or that the arena is bad, so of course when Ozorne shares this uglier side of himself in regards to those things she doesn't see it as an ugly side at all. At least, that's the feeling I got and so as for 'putting up with him,' I don't think she sees it that way at all.

That being said I really did like her character and all of her 'brotherly' kisses.

Yeah, while I enjoy seeing female characters break the mold of what is expected of them, I also like to see females who are allowed to be strong in more traditional ways. I think both types of women should be celebrated for their strength, so it was nice to see Varice portrayed so richly in T&S, and because of how she is depicted in T&S, I think her character in Emperor Mage becomes more dynamic as well as you point out.

I think Ozorne can be quite charming in a lot of ways, especially at the beginning of T&S. Even in Emperor Mage, there are moments where he does seem charming to Daine despite the fact that by then he is pretty much a monster. So I could see Varice enjoying being around Ozorne because he is charming and clever. I agree that the most terrifying Ozorne trait we see early on is his blatant racism, which, like you say, appears to be rooted in his upbringing (his mother obviously hates the Sirajit and wants revenge on them because she blames them for the death of her husband) and his father's death.

My interpretation of Varice is that she is sort of walking on eggshells and tiptoeing around Ozorne's triggers. I believe that is why she advised Arram to just not upset Ozorne. That can be a not uncommon reaction to dealing with someone who can fly off the handle as easily as Ozorne can and who can be irrational and quite violent in their tempers. I guess my take on the situation is most of us want to believe that we'd hold a family member or friend accountable for any unacceptable behavior, but a lot of times when it's a behavior like we see Ozorne manifest, many of us will pursue a policy of appeasement or of acting like things are normal when we know they aren't. It can be a sort of coping mechanism albeit an unhealthy one. There is also the factor of Ozorne being a prince, which may make it harder to confront him. There is a power imbalance between Varice and Ozorne just by virtue of his rank, so to Varice making him angry might seem dangerous just on the grounds of that imbalance alone.

Part of the problem as well is that I don't think Varice or Arram have the life experience to fully understand what is happening with Ozorne or how to handle it. Frankly, it is a situation that would confound many adults, and honestly, I thought the adults in T&S were far more culpable for mishandling Ozorne than Varice or Arram were. That's why I can't really criticize Varice or Arram for how they dealt with Ozorne, since I think they dealt with him in a way that felt believable and human to me especially from adolescents.

I do think that Varice's primary motivation seems to be keeping everything and everyone pleasant and comfortable and pretty, so I feel like she may not see Ozorne's racism as problematic and terrifying to the extent that Arram does. She may just see his temper as scary and making things unpleasant, uncomfortable, and ugly, so she might be resorting to the tactic of trying to avoid the things that upset him rather than confronting him about what upsets him. I think she may just see Ozorne's violent lashing out as the problem to be avoided more so than his racism as the real issue. That may be a main difference between Varice and Arram.

Varice seems to be willing to accept slavery as part of Carthaki society (the way Tortallan characters seem to mostly just accept feudalism). To her, it just appears to be a part of her world that she doesn't mind because it doesn't hurt her and might even make her life easier and more comfortable. I also agree that she doesn't have an issue with the gladiator fights. She seems to watch it the way Americans might an NFL l match, enjoying the spectacle despite the common and damaging impact of concussions (not that the football players are slaves or that they die at the stadium, but the bloodlust in the name of entertainment aspect is still there). Varice, by and large, seems more of a status quo type person than Arram, who appears to be more of a questioner. I think that might shed light on why Varice remains in Carthak serving Ozorne while Arram winds up fleeing Carthak and Ozorne.

There are definitely problematic aspects to Varice's character that I believe you do a great job highlighting in your post, but I find her flaws are believable, understandable to me, and make her feel very human and sympathetic despite her shortcomings. Perhaps that is why I relate to her so much. Maybe her greatest fault is wanting the world to be a prettier and pleasanter place than it is and not knowing how to cope with ugly realities.

[aki]

Mar 29, 2018 5:15:02 GMT 10 devilinthedetails said:

I guess my take on the situation is most of us want to believe that we'd hold a family member or friend accountable for any unacceptable behavior, but a lot of times when it's a behavior like we see Ozorne manifest, many of us will pursue a policy of appeasement or of acting like things are normal when we know they aren't. It can be a sort of coping mechanism albeit an unhealthy one. There is also the factor of Ozorne being a prince, which may make it harder to confront him. There is a power imbalance between Varice and Ozorne just by virtue of his rank, so to Varice making him angry might seem dangerous just on the grounds of that imbalance alone.

This is an excellent point and one I hadn't considered. I think the power imbalance likely plays a role in most of Ozone's relationships, whether consciously or not.

Mar 29, 2018 5:15:02 GMT 10 devilinthedetails said:

I do think that Varice's primary motivation seems to be keeping everything and everyone pleasant and comfortable and pretty, so I feel like she may not see Ozorne's racism as problematic and terrifying to the extent that Arram does. She may just see his temper as scary and making things unpleasant, uncomfortable, and ugly, so she might be resorting to the tactic of trying to avoid the things that upset him rather than confronting him about what upsets him. I think she may just see Ozorne's violent lashing out as the problem to be avoided more so than his racism as the real issue. That may be a main difference between Varice and Arram.

Varice seems to be willing to accept slavery as part of Carthaki society (the way Tortallan characters seem to mostly just accept feudalism). To her, it just appears to be a part of her world that she doesn't mind because it doesn't hurt her and might even make her life easier and more comfortable. I also agree that she doesn't have an issue with the gladiator fights. She seems to watch it the way Americans might an NFL l match, enjoying the spectacle despite the common and damaging impact of concussions (not that the football players are slaves or that they die at the stadium, but the bloodlust in the name of entertainment aspect is still there). Varice, by and large, seems more of a status quo type person than Arram, who appears to be more of a questioner. I think that might shed light on why Varice remains in Carthak serving Ozorne while Arram winds up fleeing Carthak and Ozorne.

There are definitely problematic aspects to Varice's character that I believe you do a great job highlighting in your post, but I find her flaws are believable, understandable to me, and make her feel very human and sympathetic despite her shortcomings. Perhaps that is why I relate to her so much. Maybe her greatest fault is wanting the world to be a prettier and pleasanter place than it is and not knowing how to cope with ugly realities.

Really great interpretation of the character and I was delighted to read your response. What you said about her being 'status quo' versus a 'questioner' seems to really be the ideal way to describe it and it really isn't anything to resent her for. She is a facilitator of communication and a master of social grace. It makes sense that her focus would be on avoiding Ozorne's triggers, because to confront him on it would no doubt bring that violent side of his personality back to the forefront. I wish I had more to say in response, but I feel like you said everything that needed to be said quite nicely.

[devilinthedetails]

Thanks, aki. I really am fascinated about Varice as a character, so I have spent quite a bit of time thinking about what motivates her:D